tv Happening Now FOX News March 12, 2013 8:00am-10:00am PDT
martha: almost 2 million traffic tickets issued in one year. guess where that happened? washington t. c. that breaks down to more than four tickets issued per minute. boy those ticket ladies are fast out there. nearly 250 per hour and almost four tickets per person who lives there. aaa says more than 70 pefrz of those violations went to drivers who live outside of washington d.c. so they saved that fun for the visitors from out of town. they also brought in $90 million. really? really? bill: revenue? martha: so annoying. what do you think, bill? bill: i are it happens in every
town. martha: to you think we could have a pope tomorrow morning. bill: technically speaking we could have a pope. martha: let's come back tomorrow and cover it. "happening now" starts right now. bye, everybody. >> reporter: a fox news alert. 45 minutes away from the start of the conclave to choose the next pope. you're looking at live pictures of the sistine chapel in vatican city where 115 cardinals from all over the world are about to file in and begin choosing the next leader of the roman catholic church. new video for you. these are the cardinals being transferred to the palace moments ago and from there they will then begin the procession to the sistine chapel and then the doors will be locked and the cardinals will be virtual lie shusreurtvirtually shut off from the outside world. no newspapers, no tv, no tweeting. they have installed jamming devices. the vote will take place within
the next pour, we could see the first smoke rise from the chimney possibly signaling the election ever the new pope. lauren glea green is live in rome with more. >> reporter: as you say the 115 cardinal electors are now at the palace. they were just transferred there from their sequestered quarters earlier today. the day started very early for a lot of the cardinals, because the american cardinals left at 7:00am, the north american college where they stayed during the general congregation meetings and they headed to the santa marta their sequester quarters. new york cardinal timothy dolan said in his blog this morning he hoped the conclave didn't last too long and he said he only brought one small bag, and he said you might see laundry hanging from the window of the santa marta. the solemn mass for the election of the new pope [speaking latin ]. a mass in which the dean of cardinals appealed for spiritual
consensus among the electors. each of us is therefore called to cooperate with the successor to saint peter, the visible foundation of such a unity. in about a half an hour the cardinals will lead the pauline chapel in grand procession, single file by seniority to the sistine chapel. after all is in place the master of ceremonies will say [speaking latin ]. everybody out. there will be no photos, no video, just paper, pen, prayer and hopefully the hole low spirt. one analyst calls this the most exciting event in the world. >> it's not like baseball where you have innings, nor is it like baseball where you play against a clock. there is no clock and there is no fixed set of innings i. think many hope that it not be too long because if it's shorter it may indicate greater unity from the get go among the cardinals. >> reporter: very few expect a new pope to be elected today. just in case the vatican is ready.
in the room of tears where the new pope goes after being elected there are hanging papal clothes small, mead and large and box efs shoes. we assume they are the red leather red shoes that the pope wears in various sizes. we will look from the wheurs whiff of smoke from the sistine chapel chimney at 8:00 tonight. if it's black smoke it means the vote is inconclusive, if there is white smoke we have a pope and we will be looking at the chimney for the next couple of hours to see what happens. rick, back to you. >> lauren green, live for us in rome. lauren, thanks. right now brand-new stories and breaking news. jenna: the battle overt budget and deficit reduction. is the president serious about striking a bargain? what is really keeping the two sides apart? carl rope rove is here and will tell us all about it in a moment. also a judge canned the ban on
super size soda in new york city. what mayor bloomberg says he's going to do now. our legal panel will weigh in on this. new fears about facebook, what the social networking site can reveal about you without you even knowing. it's all "happening now." brand-new developments in the budget battle. hi, everybody, glad you're with us today. i'm jenna lee. rick: i'm rick folbaum in for jon scott. paul ryan releasing a blueprint to balance the bulge net ten years. they plan to do it by repealing obama care. cutting domestic programs like medicaid and avoiding tax hikes. we are awaiting the democratic counter proposal as the national debt skyrockets past $16.5 trillion. new questions about how serious the president rile is about reducing the deficit which seems to be shaping up as as a battle
over revenue as opposed to cuts. karl rove is with us. good to have you here. we sit here as the president heeds to capitol hill to talk to republicans. i want to ask you about something that was posted on the national journal's website. quoting an unnamed senior white house official saying this is a joke the meeting between the president and republicans. we are wasting the president's time and ours. i hope that all of you in the media are happy because we are doing this for you. >> yeah, well if this is represent itch of the white house attitude this is a mistake. this shows how insincere the president is in this outreach. for the last four years the president has treated his opposition, political opposition with contempt and he's treated his political supporters with little better, and so this outreach by the president, if sincere and sustained might actually do some good in establishing a condition of some trust in washington to get things done. if this is the white house attitude if they are going throughout motions because they think the press want them to go
through the motions it's not going to have that impact. rick: how about from the republican standpoint? how willing should they westbound to compromise with this president do you think. >> they should be open-minded if he's sincere. i've talked to a couple of the members who were at the dinner last week, while not revealing the tone of what happened there, the specifics of what happened there, they did think the tone was, you know, potentially favorable. that is to say the opening of a process. but, look the president can't have one dinner and hope to wash away all the damage that his policies have done over the last four years. remember this is a man who questioned not simply the policies of his opposition but their motivation, and the same time that he's having dinner with a group of republican senators, his political arm organizing for action is sending out e blasts saying please contact your republican member of the house or the senate because they want to take kids out of head start, they want to take away senior nutrition programs, they want to close down, you know, airport air traffic control, and they want to undermine meat inspection
programs. this is not a good way to go about trying to say let's find a way to work together reurbz together. reurbgz has the republican party begun to position itself better, to pick up seats in the midterms and to position itself for a possible win at the white house in 2016? >> people are talking about it but that kind of stuff takes some time. i do think the republicans did a smart thing on the sequester by being strong, staying focused on it and then immediately passing a continuing resolution to fund the government at the current level, give flexibility to the defense department and not look -- not wait until the last moment. as a result we -- i understand there is now a senate bargain. so we are likely this week, maybe next to fund the government through the rest of the fiscal year. i think the republicans without a big huge controversy. i think the republicans also did a smart thing by using their leverage to force the senate to phone lee pass a budget resolution. we are running our government not by a budget passed in regular order but by a series of continuing resolutions.
the president, for example has not met his statutory responsibility under the 1974 budget control act to present a budget. he was supposed to do it february 4th. we are now in march, he has yet to present a budget and the white house is sort of pointing towards april as the moment that they might layout their own budget proposal. that is in violation of the law and it doesn't help the regular process of getting the government run in a thoughtful fashion reurbz i was going to ask if you brought your white board today, as we look at the papal conclave they need to get to 77 votes in order to get to the next vote. any hand capping there, karl. >> thank god we don't have exit polls or early returns. they do it the right way, they get to the final vote and decision and then they let the smoke up. maybe there is a message for american media. maybe we better wait rather than trying to call it let the election go to the final conclusion and let the results speak for themselves. rick: thanks, karl. jenna: a judge is putting aside the controversial ban on sugary
drinks. the new measure was set to take effect today but it's not happening. it's a blow to the city's mayor michael bloomberg who proposed the ban and says he's not giving up on it yet. eric shawn is live. >> reporter: here is my 20-ounce soda. if that ban had gone into effect it would be illegal for me to buy this in a supermarket, some food stores, a stadium, a restaurant like the one behind me or from food carts, because this is 20-ounce and the ban would affect anything that is over 16 ounces. we are outside lucky's cafe in east midtown manhatten where mayor michael bloomberg and other officials and health experts are inside now defending this controversial ban. they say the large sugary drinks have caused a problem of obesity in this country, that they say is a crisis. mr. bloomberg notes that 60% of adult new yorkers are overweight, 40% of children are overweight. one in three new yorkers have diabetes or pre diabetes, he says it's largely to blame in
his view to the massive amount of soda and sugary drinks that people consume. critics say his ban was a violation of civil liberties that people should be able to drink any amount that they want. mayor bloomberg says he's trying to protect the public's health. >> people are dying every day. this is not a joke. this is about real lives, 5,000 every, single year in america. >> reporter: the judge who overturned the ban, he called it arbitrary and ka preurb shus, says it raises government regulation to new heights which is why he had decided against it. the city though is appealing and pwhaoplburg believes the city will be successful on appeal. the beverage industry meanwhile says they will work with city melt health officials on this issue. as far as this restaurant that is voluntarily limiting the size, greg told me people come in and they actually in his view order too much and people are eating too much, an said he
wanted to do what he could to help people with their health issues, so he will not be serving anything like this inside his restaurant. back to you. jenna: i'm just glad you're not going thirsty, i worry about you, you never know. you might lose some energy. make sure you stay hydrated. eric shawn, thank you very much for that. we appreciate it. this is a big story in part not just because of new york city but because of what this ban could mean for other cities around the country. our legal panel is going to weigh in on where this goes next, what happens next, more court, more lawyers? are you going to be hoarding your 20-ounce beverages? we'll talk all about it. rick: washington is buzzing about a former obama administration adviser's new memoir that criticizes the president's handling of the war in afghanistan. new reaction to a scathing account coming up in a live report. a millionaire's wife successfully overturns her prenuptial agreement. our legal panel weighs in on what could become a landmark
divorce case. >> we had to go to trial at the time my husband made the promise to me he never intended to keep the promise. >> tell the he made the promise that he would tear it up? >> right at the time he made the promise to tear it up he never intended to keep the promise at the time he made it. girl vo: i'm pretty conservative. very logical thinker. (laughs) i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. (screams) i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours.
>> we are watching these for you today. the judge throwing out the 124 sentence for convicted rapist andrew luster the great grandson of cosmetic giant max factor an sparked sparked a global manhunt when he jumped bail and fled to mexico before his trial. celebrity bounty hunter, dou dog tracked him down. he will be resentenced on april 24th. penn state is paying up for the sex-abuse scandal, the cost $40 million so far. that number expect towed grow because it only includes the first installment of the $60 million fine.
verdict watch in the so-called craig's list killing case in ohio where the jury must now decide the fate of the alleged trigger man. he's charged with killing three men by luring them with a craig's list job offer. his codefendant was convicted and sentenced to life in prison just last year. rick: new reaction to a former obama administration's biting critique. he's speak being out now in a new eye-opening memoir criticizing the president's handling of the war in afghanistan and portraying an administration rife with infighting and personality conflicts. our chief washington correspondent james rosen is live with more. >> reporter: good afternoon. the late tony snow, well-known to our viewers once said that if there were such a thing as the type of washington memoir it's title would be, if only they had
listened to me. this is by a rising academic star on iran in the middle east. excerpts from his book published in foreign policy magazine paint president obama as, quote, dithering on key decisions related to afghanistan. the book alleges that secretary of state hillary clinton battled internal white house suspicions about her left over from the 2008 campaign and had to fight her way around a quote unquote berlin wall of advisers to have her views heard by the president. it was even worse he writes for his boss the late richard holbrooke who enlisted him to work on afghanistan and pakistan. holbrooke was well-known in washington as a foreign policy heavy weight with an out sized ego to match. he says the white house worked by leaks and other means to undermine holbrooke who died in late 2010. donald camp served under three presidents, most recently he was senior director for south and central asia on the council under president obama. he served as principle deputy
assistant secretary of state for that region which khruz afghanistan and pakistan. he says his account is colored by the experiences of his boss. >> i think that the inner agency process was, you know, in this case worked. there were strong personalities involved and certainly holbrooke was one ever the stronger, but the issues came out in deputies' meetings in principles' meetings there. was an opportunity for everyone to have their say. >> as soon as i'm done here i'll tweet out to you the contents of the secret folder that he writes secretary of state clinton kept in her files at the state department but eventually turned over to the white house. rick. rick: thank you, james. thanks for the tony snow. its always nice to remember our old friend and colleague. >> reporter: you bet. jenna: the evolving war on terror where the ci aeurbgs is now sending support today and why our next guest says while we
rick: fox news alert. a case that's captured the headlines of the tabloids in new york city a verdict reached in the so-called can a balance cop case. this is a new york city police officer who has now been convict evidence plans, nothing that he actually carried through with, but plans to commit grotesque crimes with women. he talked about these plans on the internet, some of those plans involved can a pw cannabilism.
convicted on all counts. jenna: why we stand on the war on terror. the cia is now ramping up support to iraqi counterterrorism units on the syrian border so they can better fight al-qaida and its affiliates. apparently this is in response to fears that are growing that the syrian conflict is only helping to empower mortarrer groups. our next guest says ther terror threat is only intensifying now. walter russell mead is editor at large of american interests. he wrote, while the west is tired of the war on terror the war on terror isn't tired of the west. nice to have you back on set with us. >> good to be here. jenna: you say this conflict could last many decade. that we've evolved over the last few years. can you walk us through where we are today in this fight. >> sure, phase one of which you can call this war on terror was launched by osama bin laden in -- on september 11th and his goal then was to strike the
u.s. in so many dramatic ways that muslims around the world would think that he really was the embodiment of true islam and there would be a clash of civilizations and he'd be the captain of team islam, that was his goal. i think we blocked that, between counter tere rims, betwee counterterrorism, blocking his attempt to do more strikes here, obviously killing him. we stopped al-qaida's momentum and at the same time muslims around the world took a long, hard look at al-qaida and said, no, this really isn't what we are or believe. in some ways the war in iraq was very problematic but one thing that did happen there was the sunni arabs in iraq picked the u.s. after al-qaida after they'd had a good long look at both. jenna: why haven't we won yet? >> because you see his first plan was defeated, but in war people, you know, something happens and you respond.
what al-qaida did was that it then figured, okay we can't lead all of combined islam into this great war, we can still survive, we can find places where governance is week, like mali, or libya after the fall of gadhafi, or syria today. but also in the sunni-shiite war that has broken out across the middle east al-qaida-type groups, like some of the fighters in syria, have been able to establish themselves as credible fighters against the -- jenna: let me stop you there. you said al-qaida in many ways is weakened that they have a limited capacity to attack the west, and we would consider though as good thing. at the same time you say the war on terror is intensifying. oftentimes we link the strength of al-qaida to the war on terror. is that a mistake or is there still a connection? how are we supposed to sort
through that? >> we have to think about, you know, this philosophy of radical jihad as, you know, al-qaida is one ever the groups thattess spousetess spouse espouses this. the movement is bigger and more diffuse. to some degree our success in monitoring their communications and all forces them to operate in a more independent way. jenna: speaking of success, and again the end game, which we hope to be that we win, that we defeat our enemies, is there an exit strategy? do you truly believe that even in a few decade we will be able to declare the war on terror over, or are we in a new stage in our civilization where this is going to be a constant? >> well, in one sense i think we're going to have to worry, because technological progress means that small groups of angry people can do terrible things.
and u know, so even if, when and if this jihad dephilosophy has been discredited and it no longer is finding adherence who knows who the next groups of malcontents would be. they might be crazy, they might be a pock could he lip particular nuts. there is all kind of potential out there in the world. the vigilance of possibility that small groups of people, who knows what they'll be able to put in the ves reservoir in 50 years. >> crazy talk but always nice to hear from you. thanks again. rick: a judge striking down new york's city controversial ban on supersized sodas, but the battle is far from over. we'll talk about that. a live look at vatican city where we're just minutes away from the start of the conclave to elect a new pope. our next guest explains why this conclave has its own unique framework. we're coming right back. i'm a conservative investor.
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jenna: fox news alert. some live pictures from vatican city, today, where 115 cardinals from around the world are right now about to walk to the sistine chapel where they will begin the conclave that will elect the next pope. the cardinals will have no phones, no television, no internet. virtually they will be shut off from the outside world. then they will take an oath, the first voting session is
expected to take place and we could soon see the white or black smoke rise from the chapel chimney which would signal whether or not there is a new pope. it is not expected today but you never know what might happen. we have steven white a fellow at the catholic studies program at the ethics in public policy center. steven, we'll go back to some live pictures we have right now. walk us through the final process. these are last live pictures of the cardinals we'll see potentially for the next several days. so where are we now in the process? >> right now it looks like they are not yet in the sistine chapel. they may be in the pauline chapel. what you notice earlier today they had a mass for the election of a new roman pontiff. now they're in another chapel going through some prayers. they will be processing in. citing litany of the saints. if this seems like liturgy more than a political convention there is reason
behind this because it is. this is a spiritual endeavor. there is a very human aspect to the election of a pope. primarily this is about men, cardinals, discerning what god is asking of them and asking of the next pope in terms of guiding the church. so they take this seriously. there is lot of politicking going on right now. you will not see any big sort of campaign speeches. what you see atmosphere of prayer and reflection as they undertake this immense task. they will listen in here. jenna: some are incredible scenes. we'll pause for a moment and listen. [chanting] ♪ .
jenna: so the procession is taking place now to the sistine chapel and then, steven, once inside the chapel, where we no longer will have any live pictures, take us inside. what happens next? >> well, once they get inside there will be some people who will be in with the conclave who will be sworn in as it were, promised to secrecy. and then at some point everyone will be asked to leave. everyone who is extra leave, or everyone, all out is what it means. and then the cardinalses will be locked in the conclave. they will all take an oath as a group and then individually to follow the rules set out for the election of a new pontiff set by john paul ii in 1996. they will promise to undertake the task faithfully and choose the
bets man before god and before the church as they see fit. jenna: stephen, do they get a break to eat, to sleep? how does it really work if it will take several days to have the final vote that would lead to a new pope? >> well, they will live in the vatican and they will vote, if, no one is elected they will have two votes in the morning and two votes in the afternoon. they may take a vote in the afternoon. but on a normal day two votes in the morning and two votes in the afternoon if necessary. voting takes a long time. each vote is delivered by hand individually. each cardinal promises his vote is made with a clear conscience. the most vote you can get in a morning's work is two. there is a lot of down time for prayer and reflection. there there will be breaks for food. a couple of people are locked in the conclave with the cardinals, physicians and nurses, people to do the housework and cook for the cardinals. but there are very few people. it is really the cardinals amongst themselves in prayer
reflecting on the decision at hand. jenna: i would like you to go back to one of the fir points you touched on a little bit. we're witnessing this incredible ritual, whether or not you're catholic or not, it is really incredible to bear witness to this. we don't see this all the time. why so much ritual, stephen? why is the ritual here so important? >> well, for two reasons. one is that by doing things the same way, following a precise rid wall and a -- ritual and precise order you make sure there are not any discrepancies. the second and most important reason the cardinals are engaged in the work of the church. what they're singing right now is the litany of saints. they're asking upon saints from over the centuries from the past 2000 years of christian history to pray for them. the church is not just the catholics on the planet right now but we believe in the communion of saints. it is the saints alive with christ in heaven. the cardinals are calling on their intercession to help
them discern clearly and make a good decision. this is really a prayerful exercise. jenna: let's go ahead, this is referred to in print as a hypnotic chant of sorts. stephen told us it is to call upon some inspiration, some help from the holy spirit to make the right decision, whatever that might be, for the next pope. so let's go ahead and listen in on what they're repeating now. [singing] ♪ .
jenna: you may not understand all the words but you can hear the chant very much being repeated by these cardinals, 115 of them. they need 77 votes or 2/3 to select the next pope. and what we're going to be looking for outside the sistine chapel is that six-foot high copper chimney that will announce to the world whether it is black smoke or white smoke in the case they have selected a new pope that the church has the 266th pope in the church history. stephen, we're watching just the end here, as the final cardinals file in and just a moment we're going to watch, we'll take in that shot of seeing the doors close. you can see inside as they're moving in slowly.
the chant is repeating. it's an ancient chant that's, again, a prayer of sorts for help in this process. stephen, just let us know, two votes usually in the morning, two votes in the evening. we do expect, according to what we've heard, that a little later on this afternoon in about, oh, three hours or so we could see the first vote. the evidence of the first vote has taken place and what we will see is the chimney. that will tell us whether or not maybe they have made a quick decision. highly unlikely but as we know you can't predict some of these things. so here they are, they're filing in. and stephen, some, i'm sorry, i was being told something in my ear. lauren green is also standing by with us outside the vatican. we'll bring her in just a moment but i don't want to miss this really key part which is when the doors finally close. and when they do this will
be the final shot that we have of the sistine chapel and where these cardinals will remain for presumably the next several days. when the ballots are cast, they're, almost like sown together with a needle thread and then, as they're sown together, all of them, the ballots are burned in this cast iron stove and the smoke, whether it's white or black doesn't come out automatically. they actually use a chemical that helps signal whether or not a decision has been made. so some pressure there to make sure obviously you use the right chemical, right? you can't announce to the world there is new pope if there isn't one. that part of the process takes place. each one of the cardinals will walk up to the altar. they will place their votes, in what is sort of like a saucer, and then they will tip that into the urn and that's the way that they cast their ballot in this case.
sistine chapel that's been around for 500 years the work of michelangelo. if any of you have been inside the sistine chapel, it is overwhelming surrounded by these incredible works of art. the men outside here, there are guards obviously at vatican city and a lot of precautions being taken to make sure there is no leaks from the inside. rick, i think you mentioned as well to our viewers at the top of the show. no twitter. no blackberries, no iphones. ing like that rick: a lot of cardinals are savvy about modern communications a great way to get your message out to the faithful but that is not allowed in this process. what is so interesting, these pictures are provided to us by vatican television, doing a beautiful job capturing the ma. >> city of those -- majesty of these moments.
the cardinals are told exactly who got how many votes. so they begin to get sort of a sense which cardinal among them is beginning to gather some support. then each additional voting that takes place that is sort of how they begin to get a consensus who it is that will become the next leader of the catholic church. jenna: stephen is back with us. stephen, talk to us a little bit about that transparency if you will. why do they announce the report results every time a vote is taken? >> well it's because it is good for them to, it is good for them to know what is going on with the other cardinals. there is lot of secrecy surrounding the conclave. in order to insure that the election of the next pope is, is, done by the cardinals without outside influence, but within the conclave there is a good deal of transparency as we just heard. they do have chances to talk with each other, to discuss things. there is not a lot of politicking and campaign
speeches but they do have a chance to talk and to pray together and to discuss these things. and within the conclave there's a great deal of openness. they're sworn to seacrest at this. so what exactly happens in the conclave, apart from who gets elected won't be shared outside of the conclave under rather severe penalty. inside the conclave among the cardinals themselves there is a lot of sharing of information and talking so the election is sort of open and, needing 2/3 majority it is important that consensus gets built. jenna: it is hard for us to really imagine an election that is not political but their only point of reference, right, stephen, when we think about our own voting you say there is not a lot of politicking taking place but we do know there are some, quote, unquote, front-runners in this group. can you tell us a little bit about who those people are and why they are considered to be frontrunners? >> well, there are certain men who have certain qualities that make them an
attractive candidate for being pope. they're good theologians. they're respected as holy and prayerful men. they have demonstrated the capacity to lead other, things like this. so the cardinals know amongst themselves and from friends who among them has these traits and in what quantities. some of the names that hear passed around, cardinal angelo scola of milan, cardinal o'malley of boston's name has been mentioned a lot. cardinal mark lecht, pretech of the congregation of bishops right now. these are men who generally fit that profile. they're considered front-runners in the sense that people mention their names alot. they will probably garner some votes but actually who comes out of the conclave as the next pope remains to be seen the cardinals have had
a week to discuss amongst themselves what kind of qualities they're looking for in the next pope. some of the issues that the next pope should be prepared to address. but once they're in conclave, sort of, locked in amongst themselves the conversation can change in unexpected ways. so we can talk about some names who are mentioned a lot. to suggest there is a clear frontrunner or one of these two or three men will probably be the next pope is probably not very helpful. rick: lauren green, i want to bring you in. we heard from stefen white mentioning the name of cardinal o'malley. there are a couple of other american cardinals who are taking part in this conclave. it seems for the first time i don't even, for maybe the first time ever there is some serious discussion of an american pope. how has it come to that, lauren and what's the reaction been? >> reporter: well, you know one of the reasons why the american popes, i'm sorry the american cardinals are mentioned so much because
one of the needs of the church is sort of clean up the mess in the vatican curia, the vatican government. one of the things that americans have is a great deal of administrative ability. they know how to run a diocese, archdiocese, many of the larger archdiocese like los angeles and new york, washington, d.c., they are large places and they have a lot of, a lot of administrative work to be done. so many see the americans able to clean up the vatican curia that is one of the things that developed two camps. reformers who want to clean up the roman curia and others are satisfied with the status quo. these are two camps that have developed. that's why the americans are mentioned so prominently. timothy dolan out of new york. boston's sean o'malley. even cardinal worrell out of washington, d.c.. rick: stephen white, though, the likelihood of an american pope if you had to
put some odds on it what would you say? >> i'm not going with odds. i think it is fairly unlikely. rick: why is that? if you could just explain to our viewers most of whom will be here in the united states who would wonder why an american hasn't before and most likely won't be chosen as a pope? why? >> well there's a couple of reasons why it hasn't happened in the past. there used to be what is called the a super --, wasn't a real thing. you don't want to the give us superpower in addition to the papacy with other things it has control of. i heard from a lot of experts who are every owe there now that is much less in play this year than it has been in the past. there is such a thing as building coalitions. they're not political factions but there are different groups of cardinals from different parts of the world, with different interests who are likely to sort of select the man they think best fits the
needs they see the church having. if you do the math it adds up that it's possible but not terribly likely we'll have an american. it is complicated but that's the answer. jenna: we can take complicated. some things don't necessarily have complete explanation especially when they come to things of a higher power too which is something we're listening to the chants and these prayers essentially of these cardinals for help in making this profound decision for the church. stephen, one of the things that's come up in news coverage over the last several weeks is pope benedict resigned. ig surprise for not only the church but really for the world. that in some way that has destablized the church. i'm curious your thoughts on that, the effect of that has been and how that might affect who is selected to be the next pope? >> yeah, well, destablize depends what you mean by that i think it has unsettled a lot of people.
this is not something that happens often. in a lot of ways it is an unprecedented resignation but i think it has put a lot of the church and probably a lot of the cardinals in the mind set there is something different this time. that there's a sort of an extra gravity to the decision that's being made now. a very well-loved, a very wise and learned man has just resigned the office of st. peter because he says he doesn't have the strength to continue carrying on that task in the way that it needs to be carried on. so i think that at the front of the minds of the cardinals is going to be choosing a man that will be very capable in precisely those areas that the last pope resigned for not being capable in or not seeing himself as being capable in. and i think that without a clear frontrunner and with this sort of heightened sense of urgency and outlook towards what is next for the church, all bets are off with this conclave. maybe a long conclave.
probably unlikely to be a very short conclave but we'll see. jenna: the chanting has now stopped and we believe we're at about the time where stephen told us earlier everyone else will be told to leave. time to leave and time for work to begin for this conclave. i believe the person that is speaking there is cardinal sodano. i'm not sure if you can see? >> the former priest of the congregation of bishops. jenna: sodano is the dine of the cardinals. he is sort of part of this as well. what role does this man have as far as helping this process along? >> normally it would be cardinal sodano doing what cardinal ray is doing right now but the cardinal is over the voting age so he won't be allowed in the conclave. so i believe cardinal ray is the highest ranking cardinal
bishop under the age of 80 if you can follow what that means. so he is playing sort of the emcee right now. rick: lauren, i was reading that it used to be that popes were elected and that the people, catholics, had a say in who the next pope would be. over the years the rules have changed and obviously now it is just these cardinals who will elect the new pope but i'm wondering as you walk the streets of rome and talk to people on the ground there, catholics who are here, who have come from all over to welcome the new pope once his name is finally announced what have you heard from the faithful in terms of what they would like to see in the next pope? what kind of qualities? >> reporter: well, one of the things i heard from a couple of different people is that, you know, perhaps they should go back to the people electing the holy
father. they want a say in how they choose the holy father because this process has been in place for so long and perhaps we should upgrade it a little bit. other people are quite satisfied how you're seeing this process because if you have so many voices determining how to choose a holy father, everybody's voice then has an equal say and then the church is being run by democracy. one thing the holy father always said, pope benedict, and pope john paul ii, the church is not democracy, whoever has 50% of the vote is who wins. i think there is a sense of awe on what is going on right now but there is sense of mystery what this situation means for the future of the church. to have a pope resign what does that mean about the future of the church? what does it mean about the feeling of the papacy and how people will look at it in the future? there is a lot of mystery surrounding what is going on right now and part of that mystery what it will mean for the future of the
catholic church. rick: leading up to this conclave, lauren, the cardinals were gathered in rome. they started to come to rome in the days after pope benedict xvi officially resigned and then what followed were conversations between all of them amongst themselves, discussions about what everyone felt were the needs for the catholic church moving forward. you know that i know a lot of those discussions were private but i'm just wondering if you have been able, talking to your sources to get a sense what kind of consensus there was? what were the conclusions of the cardinals in those conversations in terms of what needs to happen for the church with the next pope? >> reporter: well, i just talked with a german journalist who has written a biography of pope benedict's brother actually and he was talking about the needs of the church. they need an administrator. they need someone who can really clean house because that was the major problem. pope benedict was a great theologian. he was a great inspiration
spiritually but he didn't clean house. he wasn't able to do that. and one of the reasons he thinks that the pope stepped down in the process of stepping down the roman curia basically has to resign itself. that was one way to clean house. get rid of everybody there and get somebody in there to build the church up again. that is one thing they think the church needs. the other school of thought that the church needs a great evangelist. they need someone to communicate the faith because some people are leaving the church. they need to have more inspiration spiritually to build up the church. that is what they think they need. there are these two schools of thought. do you have a great administrator? or do you have this great shepherd of the people to bring those souls back to the church? this is what the cardinals will be discussing and have been discussing all week long. because we don't know the specifics of their general congregation meetings we don't know what they came to the conclusion for. we know 161 cardinals actually spoke during the general congregation meetings. so they have a clear i idea
of what they want. one of the reasons why they think the conclave may not last more than two or three days is because perhaps they already have a great idea about who they're going to choose. we don't know yet because those conversations are privy only to the cardinals jenna: stefen, we're watching cardinals now and reading from a large book as you can see on the screen and has pages that they're reading from. is this oath of secrecy? are they taking the oath of secrecy now? where is the process? >> yes. the book is the book of goss peltz, you see a gospel passage on the right. i can't tell which gospel it is. on the left looks like pasted to the book is a copy of the oath they're swearing individually. on the left is the oath. on right is the gospel. jenna: does everyone one by one come up and place their hands and swear to keep this oath?
>> i believe they do this every day at the beginning of the conclave so that they don't do it every vote but they make promises at the beginning of every day that are along these lines, that their vote is cast with a clear conscience. that they are voting for the person that they think is the best. they're not just swearing on the gospels but facing michelangelo's beautiful painting, the last judgment. if you want to know what is going through the cardinals mind as they undertake this weighty decision you cast your eyes up on the big wall and see jesus christ at the last judgment sorting the sheep from the goats. a bracing reminder to the cardinals of what their responsibilities are. cardinals of what their responsibilities are. rick: it is something to watch these pictures, isn't it? and to know what these men are about to do and the seriousness with which they take this role as cardinals. again, we talked about this a
little bit. cardinals must be under the age of 80 in order to participate in this conclave, and most of these men were appointed to their positions, their current positions by the pope who just resigned, pope benedict vxi who himself is over the age of 80 and is not taking part in any aspect of the selection of his successor. he is at the papal summer residence about 15 miles or so from rome. he is staying there for the next couple of months both to sort of allow for an easy transition to the next papacy, but then he will be moving back into the vatican, and an apartment is being bullet for him right now on the grounds -- built for him right now on the grounds of the vatican, and that will be something that has never happened before, where there is a retired pope. he will be pope emeritus, pope benedict, with a brand new pope both living under the same roof, so to speak. jenna: and a big question about
what could kind of interaction there could be potentially. some have suggested there will be no interaction. we can only speculate at this time. as you mentioned, this is the first time that we've seen at least in our lifetime, in the past 600 years or so of a pope resigning. rick: steven white, this is also the first time that we've gotten such an up-close look at this process as it begins. the vatican television crew capturing these images and beaming them around the world with just as they did on the final day of pope benedict's papacy when he officially stepped down. this is a very, you know, i don't want to call it slick because i don't mean to be disparaging at all, but this is quite a production that the vatican has put together. i'm wondering your thoughts on the fact that they're putting this out there for all the world to see and what the motives might have been behind what was, i'm sure, you know, a very serious discussion on how to
project this to the world. >> well, you know, when a new pope is elected, a cardinal comes out on the ball con and announces to the world we have a new pope, right in and i think there's something tell anything that. in a sense, he's speaking to catholics. the pope is the head of the catholic church, the vick car of christ. but i think the whole world in a way feels a certain connection to the pope in a way that doesn't to other religious leaders. there are very few men especially in the last century who have the kind of moral authority that is just sort of widely recognized. there we see cardinal george, the archbishop of chicago. and even for people who aren't catholic, they like having a pope even if it's not their pope. i think that there's great interest in this around the world. and i think by showing that the process of how, as much as they can, of the process about how cardinals go about electing the pope, i think that's an
invitation in and of itself. rick: we were talking about the kinds of qualities that catholics around the world and then as you rightly say i think people of all faiths would like to see in the next pope, one of the words that you hear written about when describing the certain candidates, people who may be elected as the next pope is the level of charisma that that person has. how important is charisma? how important should it be? i think a lot of people felt that pope john paul ii was the embodiment of charisma. pope benedict vxi perhaps not so much. i'm wondering if you have a sense of how important these cardinals feel that charisma is when choosing the next leader of the church. >> well, charisma is important because it can get people's attention. what really matters is the substance behind the charisma. but if you can have a charismatic messenger as opposed to sort of a bland or dreary messenger, i think everyone would take the former.
a pope who coo exudes energy -- exudes energy and lives with a sort of obvious joy is a great asset to the mission of the church. it's very easy, i think, a lot of times for a lot of us to forget that at the heart of the christian discipleship is a great sense of joy. we see the solemnity here in these ceremonies which is very important. but ultimately, christian discipleship is about love and a love that produces great joy. having a pope who can show that just by his countenance says a lot. i think a lot of people learned a lot more about what it means to be a christian disciple by looking at the smile on pope john paul ii's face, for example, than by reading his long -- however excellent -- [inaudible] the way one lives one's life and the joy that one exudes is a great testimony, a great witness to the truths by which one
lives. rick: steven white is a fellow catholic studies program at the ethics and public policy center. great insight, steven. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. [speaking italian] in. ♪ jenna: as the oath continues here, all 115 cardinals will step forward and swear to secrecy over the next several days. could be several days, we actually don't know, until the conclave is over and a new pope is selected. standing by with us is robert moynihan, inside the vatican magazine editor. and, robert, i'm just curious on your observations, your thoughts and feelings on a day like today where the conclave is about to begin. >> well, i'm excited, and i'm wondering what the results will be. first question, will it be short or will it be long. if it's short, we could even
have white smoke here in two, two and a half hours. we could have a new pope. if it's long, we might not have an answer til the weekend. that depends if they can decide they've got one man in mind or if they're going to try to choose between five or six candidates. jenna: what do you think is the biggest challenge facing these cardinals? >> the biggest challenge is that the church is in turmoil and that the secular world and science have presented a vision of reality which is hard for christians to respond to, and they need a communicator that can talk about things that are not just physical, not just material, probably the phrase is man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of god. we've forgotten what that means, and we've talked about material life and bread, but we've forgotten about the spirit.
but can a man communicate that? can the pope communicate it? was pope rats inger, pope benedict able to communicate it? i think they're going to look, as we were saying a moment ago, for someone who will be very charismatic, who will be telegenerallic. i think he'll be in his 60s. i think he'll be elegant, and i think he'll have a ready smile. jenna: we're all imagining different people that could fit that description. of the few cardinals that we probably know, robert, explain to us if you could what the significance is of in this pope to the catholic church at this time. what does the pope mean for the church? >> well, the pope is the head of the church, he is the chief teacher of the church, he's the governor of the church, he's the person who can make changes and laws if he wishes. he's the absolute authority in the church. the fact that the pope has just
resigned in many -- in an act of great humility saying that he didn't have the strength to continue to be the governor and he's going to devote his life to prayer means that we are at an unprecedented moment, and they're going to be choosing a man who will, i think, be able to work with ratzinger and at the same time a man who will be strong on his own to carry the church forward. jenna: so now that we have an idea of the job description, if you will, and also we have your other description of who this man might be, what are the names that you're hearing? >> hmm. well, cardinal angela skola of milan who is a student of the same type of theology of men -- benedict is, perhaps, the leading candidate right now. he's trying to gather more than 40 votes on the first ballot which will occur in about an hour. and if he can, the other candidates will say should we
start joining our votes to those 40. if they realize he's not going to get more than 50 or 60 votes and he will not make the two two-thirds vote, they will have to set that candidacy aside. there's another cardinal from saw palolo, brazil, who represents latin america. he would be a dramatic change but in some ways represent, also, continuity. he and scola will each try to make a statement in this first vote this evening, and there'll be probably 10 or 12 votes for cardinal dolan, and if he surpasses that, that would be quite impressive, and people will begin to think maybe there'll be an outsider. if those three are stopped, then it really opens up. and there are two men that i like very much who would be possible candidates ifrst three. rick: and they are? >> one of them is malcolm
ranjiv. he was very close to pope benedict, but some of the officiants didn't like him, and they saw to it that he was removed and sent to sri lanka. he said to me at the time, maybe they've forgotten that the tiger out of the cage is more dangerous than the tiger in the cage. he's a very conservative religious man. i once saw him in a procession where he got out of his vehicle, and he knelt down on the ground, and the entire crowd knelt down with him. he also is a diplomat, and he brought peace between the tamil tigers in a long civil war in sri lanka, so he has a lot of qualities. speaks perfect english, of course, and he would be a dramatic figure. he would represent the third world. the other candidate is a very attractive man, he's sort of the spiritual son and intellectual son of joseph ratzinger, and
that's christophe shone born of i vienna. he's el quantity, he's very intelligence, he's written many books. he speaks many languages, and he would be a person that some would say looks like a young john paul or ii. rick: robert moynihan inside the vatican magazine editor. thank you so much for your insights today. we appreciate your time. father jonathan morris is a fox news contributor, he joins us on the phone. always nice to talk to you, father morris, and as we watch the beginning of this conclave, your thoughts today? >> well, rick, and jenna lee, it's good to be talking with you. a lot of mixed emotions. i guess the biggest emotion for me was being with cardinal dolan this morning, very early in the morning, 6:45 as he's packing his bag and getting ready to leave. and, you know, just knowing that without, certainly, him looking for amazingly in the last week or two the winds have definitely
been pushing if in the direction of -- in the direction of the only of an american candidate as pope. and it was moving just to watch. and, um, i would never normally do this, but i said to him, you know, let me just take a picture with you now just in case. and we took a picture. and then we walked down, and he put his suitcase in the box, and they went away, the more than cardinals from the north american college down the hill to the vatican where they entered into the residence which i'm just standing just outside of right now. and their day, they began this new life in these few days of conclave in which they recognize they have a huge responsibility to decide who it is that will take on this gigantic task of
leader not only of 1.2 billion members of the catholic church, but also if you think about it, the most outstanding and powerful and influential religious figure that we have on earth today no matter what religion we're talking about. somebody who's standing for traditional values that catholics and non-catholics alike believe in deeply. rick: i want to be very careful not to compare the election of the new pope to the political process that we see that plays out here in the united states, but you mentioned the time that you spent with cardinal dolan this morning, and we know that all the cardinals have been gathered having informal discussions in vatican city over the last several days ahead of this conclave. is there any politicking that goes on behind the scenes? for example, with cardinal dolan, would people come up and try to curry favor with him or try to compliment him in some way to that if, in fact, he does start the to pick up some
steam -- start to pick up some steam of support for the next pope that they might be in his favor, that kind of thing? >> well, rick, no doubt, rather than call it politicking, i would call it the human factor. the human factor. and as we watch those unbelievable images of such solemnity, we also are reminded that just over the last two weeks those same cardinals were in restaurants, in apartments having a drink, discussing amongst themselves real names of who do you think? what about this person? what about his record? googling other cardinals, finding out. i mean, that's the messy nature and a very fine nature, i think, of life on this earth. it's the human factor. and the fact that we can see this combination of a human factor and an aspiration for the spiritual i find to be personally very inspiring. >> i love the idea of cardinals googling other cardinals. [laughter] because in a lot of cases they do have to get to know one
another. some of them are, you know, serving their particular constituencies like cardinal dolan here in new york, for example, and other cardinals work there in the vatican all the time. >> yeah, you're right, rick. and it's a very different thing, however, than normal politics because these guys know or very well that the last thing they want unless they're absolutely out of their mind is actually to be the one selected. these, if anything, they would be campaigning against themselves. why? because, first of all, you have a major, life-altering lifestyle change. you go from being, you know, working your own diocese, archdiocese but still having your own private life to having no privacy whatsoever, being behind the walls so to speak of the vatican. that certainly has changed over the centuries to becoming a much more public figure, it's still a
life-changing, absolutely radical change in whoever this person will be. and so they're not campaigning for themselves, i assure you. they're looking for somebody else who might be, in their opinion, god is calling to take on this task. jenna: father morris, it's interesting to hear you say that because one of the things we talked a great deal about when we saw pope benedict leave for the final time was that he never wanted to be pope. he was very reluctant during this conclave process to step forward and take that position. and i'm wondering if you could give us a little bit more context for what things are like this time around versus what they were like -- >> sure. jenna: -- nearly a decade ago when that was taking place. >> that's a great question, jenna. and, you know, eight years ago i was here, and i had the blessing to be covering that conclave as well. and i can tell you that the name on the lips of every one of those cardinals eight years ago was ratzinger.
what do you think about him? why? because they were looking for a steady continuity to the pontificate of john paul ii. and we remember the overflowing sentiments of appreciation and of praise for him. that said, jenna lee, right now there is no ratzinger. i think bob hoin man's suggestions -- moynihan's suggestion of different candidates, those are good ones. i think there are others as well. i would throw out two, for example, cardinal from argentina, although he is older, now 76 years old and that would be a surprise if they don't go for a younger man, they're looking for someone right now who can also reform. and it's not an easy task to reform a 2,000-year-old institution not in terms of doctrine, but in terms of what's going on in vatican, in the
urea. there's a -- cuaiae. a servant of leadership to the local churches. unfortunately, it's been mired in corruption, it's been mired in inefficiency and of dysfunction. and they are looking for someone who can step in and say enough is enough, we are called to serve the people of god. and if they find that in somebody who's a little bit older, they might go for that. and certainly they would like to find someone younger, but they're very focused, i would say laser focused on making sure that there's some serious rectification in the human aspect of the church. jenna: one guest on our show yesterday as part of a package piece that was being reported out of rome, father jonathan, and just your quick thoughts on that said the next pope should be someone like jesus christ with an mba.
is that a simpler way of saying what you just said? >> yeah, you know, i think that's true. first of all, you're not going to find jesus christ, and i would say that that's okay. because while we would love to find a perfect candidate, and this, of course, i'm saying as a person of faith and a believer, just think about jesus, who did he choose as the first leader of the church? he chose a guy named peter, a fisherman who he knew would deny him three times when he needed him most in the hour of his agony. but he also knew that that peter was a man who would come to true contrition for his sin and who would become an unbelievable force of leadership precisely because he knew that he was not perfect and in need of a redeemer. now, that's a very spiritual, perhaps personal look at this. jenna: sure. >> but the point is that there is hope no matter, in my opinion, no matter who is selected. we would like to not have one of those doozies of the renaissance
period of popes that were anything but examples of virtue. but the fact is the church has survived 2,000 years. the fact that we even care about this 2,000 years after the birth of jesus christ means, i believe, that god is at work, and he's at work even through these very imperfect men. jenna: father jonathan, we'll keep our expectations in the right place. it was a good analysis for us whether or not catholic or not, it's always incredible to have your insight, and we'll be back to father jonathan throughout the next several hours, next several days. rick: shepard smith is the anchor of "studio b," he and his team outside the vatican. your observations, shep, since arriving in rome. >> it's raining, and inside it's absolutely beautiful. to suggest that we might know anything based on being here would be to fly in the face of fact. but i can tell you that italians and romans specifically have
been living this for generations, generations as far back as anyone could ever imagine, and romans have a different take on this than everything else that we've been hearing today. rick: how so? >> from everything we hear from romans, aside from the religious aspects of all of this, the catholic church and vatican is a very, very pig business. big business. and the very big business is in a bad place. and there are people from outside rome who sort of run the big thing who believe we have to reform this. the headlines are not like this in the united states, but here in italy and for a period of weeks and months you've had scandal after scandal after scandal. the vatican bank scandal with all of the things leaking out of the pope's office, the underaged sex scandal, one after another. and there is an internal battle within this very large thing called the catholic church about how to handle this. as is the case always and forever in almost everything,
those in charge and in power and in control want to remain in charge and in power and in control. and they've come up with a strategy to do that. well, that's the curia, and they don't want as much reform as, say, those from outside, for instance, those from america and other parts of europe. and that's what the beginning of this struggle is. and i was listening to moynihan just a few minutes ago as, rick, you were speaking with him, and i thought the way he boiled it down was so well said. there are a number of candidates out there who would speak to and act for those who believe reform is necessary and proper and must happen and quickly to, frankly, save the church, at least in the short run. and you go one of those reformers after another. and depending on with whom you speak, there are two or three, maybe four of those. and once you get through those votes, for instance, you have the first vote. and if the brazilian doesn't get the first vote, they move to the next, and then they move to the next. and then when you run out of
reformers, that's when you come back to the old guard. and that's how we're going to know. the longer this goes, according to everyone with whom i've spoken here, the less chance that we'll have someone from outside the curia from the reform movement. it's going to define the church for at least the short run and maybe for the long run, and i think that's where the intrigue and suspense are in all of this. it is absolutely a beautiful thing to watch, to be able to listen to that music inside this building and see all the package gentry that predates all of us. but there's much more going on behind the scenes. how many people are willing to talk about it and talk about straight up is another matter. the one thing we're sure of, we can't know exactly what they're going to do in there until they've done it. rick: when you talk about reform and the appetite for reform, what kind of reform is everybody talking about? there was a report the other night on "60 minutes" that talked about the possibility of changing the rules and allowing priests to marry, to have of families, something that used to be allowed years and years and years ago. is there that kind of reform, or are we talking about smallerrer,
more incremental reforms that really wouldn't sort of create the same kind of, you know, changes within the catholic church? >> i think in many ways the two of you, you and jenna, were speaking a little bit ago that it's so difficult to talk about a process like this without including politics from our perspective. and though it's not part of the dogma, and it's not what those from the church. will say, this -- there's a lot of politics in this. and it just depends on the person with whom you speak. do they think that the first thing you have to tackle is the vatican bank scandal? it's my understanding that there's been a great deal of conversation about that over the past week. among these cardinals who have come to town. and over the past week what they've done is they've all gotten together and tried to learn things about each other and about what's going on. if you work halfway around the world in a local diocese, you've come to rome, there's not a grieving process for the first time, no pope has died, so you're able to go through the discussion process. and that may well turn out -- according to many with whom i've
spoken here -- to be a very good thing. hay need to figure out what to tackle first. if you look across an organization, any organization in the world and you see multiple scandals, in many cases debilitating potential scandal, you have to decide what to do first. they have to decide how they're going to handle the child sex crisis, how they're going to handle vatileaks, how they're going to handle the bank scandal and how they're going to bring new people into the fold without alienating those already in the church. the challenges are numerous, and the way you tackle them depends on one's point of view. so i think we'll learn how they want to tackle reform if they decide to go that route when they decide. we can sit around and speculate and give all the details of all that has happened thus far, but we cannot see into the future. so i think this is a process, not an event. it's beginning here. the part that we're seeing is, frankly, for show. it's beautiful, and it's part of tradition, and it's hopefully in
the eyes of catholics it makes everyone think about faith and hope and love and theology and scripture. but more than anything this is a process that's going to redefine the church, and we can't know what's going to happen until it has. jenna: as some of our viewers are just joining us, we're continuing to see this swearing to an oath of secrecy by the 115 cardinals that are inside the sistine chapel right now getting ready to officially lock the doors and officially get into what we believe will be a voting process that could take place this evening. shep, you mentioned something just a few moments ago, you said that there's no grieving process taking place this time around. and i seem to recall that you were, you were in italy for the death of pope john paul ii. and i'm curious your thoughts on coming into the process of reporting on who the next pope will be when it's after the death of someone like pope john paul ii compared to how you're coming into it now where pope
benedict is now no longer pope, but he's still very much alive. >> well, i think it creates two completely different set of circumstances. there's no question that john paul ii was beloved by so many catholics and certainly beyond the catholic church, around the world. much of the focus at that point was on his death. and what his death meant and how catholics, people of faith were going to deal with that death. and then you move on to the next process. this time those of us who have come here have been able to focus on the state of theture p. , the state of the business of the church, the people of the church and so have the cardinals. but you have this new entry which you've all been discussing as well. this man, pope emeritus, is going to live in this place. it is not any secret that he tried to bring forth a lot of reforms that he was not able to accomplish. now, whether that was part of his resignation or not, i can't know. but it's been left for great speculation and, trust me, all over rome that's been the
speculation. but you were speaking, you were speaking, jenna, process and how the thought process has changed as a result of this. i think it's freed many people's minds to consider these very real challenges that are ahead of them and try to begin at least internally as each individual come to think what should be priority one. how do we best serve the church and the people of the church and all all that the church is all around the world, and how do you find someone who works in africa and america and in canada and in, across europe? it's a daunting task in a world where we all communicate instantaneously. and i think it's worth noting as well, jenna, that the juxtaposition of this church that now realizes it needs so much greater transparency. i think most catholics will tell you, and i've spoken to so many over the last couple of days and, frankly, weeks as we've built toward this process who have said if only we'd have had
transparency within the individual diocese, if only members of the diocese had known what the priests had done, it would never have come to this. if only they had known about what was happening within the vatican bank. if only they had realized what's going on, then none of this would have happened. and yet juxtapose that with this no tweeting, no information, no involvement from anyone, the least transparent process of anything maybe we will witness this year juxtaposed against this seemingly universal realization that it's transparency that hurts so much. and i'm sure that that's something with which a lot of catholics are struggling and something which i'm finding challenging to cover, frankly, because if you talk to those who speak for the vatican and otherwise, these lines of questioning are uncomfortable, and i certainly understand that. they're also worthwhile. jenna: some important context for us. shep is going to stay with us. he's going to be covering, of
course, the rest of this process throughout the day here on fox news. just for some timeline, we're about 12:30 eastern time, right around 3 p.m. eastern time we expect to perhaps see what could be the results of the first vote. it looks like we're coming to the end of this swearing to an oath of secrecy, so let's just pause for a moment here as we watch the end of this, this part of the process. [speaking italian] [speaking italian]
♪ ♪ rick: so it seems as though the final cardinal has taken the oath of secrecy, and now we are expecting to have of an order of all out. that will be given, and then everybody who's not authorized to remain in the conclave must leave, and we're expecting that to happen now. take a listen. [speaking italian] rick: and there it was.
and so those are, i guess, the nonessentials, so to speak. they will not be taking part in the conclave, and you just heard the order which means all out, and so only the cardinals will remain. the doors will be locked, and the conclave will officially begin. we're expecting one vote later on today perhaps, although very few people have said that they expect this vote to be a determining vote. this is just the first and then beginning tomorrow there will most likely be two votes in the morning, two votes in the afternoon until a two-thirds plus one majority is reached. that number would be 77 votes in order for the next pope to be elected. jenna: you can see the swiss
guards there standing, they're the guards at the vatican that will watch over those doors. for a little bit of context, in the past 100 years no conclave has lasted longer than five days. so we don't know how long this might last, but if you look at past as precedent, perhaps, maybe not longer than five days. looks like the final, final people are leaving from inside the sistine. one more photographer out the door. rick: trying to get that last shot. jenna: last shot. rick: can't blame him. jenna: we are too. rick: one of the so-called front runners is the austrian cardinal, and it's funny that even though he's one of the favorites, at least one catholic from his home country does not think he's qualified qualified t want him to become pope, and
that's his own mother. his 92-year-old mom is quoted in an associated press saying that her son is too good-natured to deal with the nastiness of the whole thing. he has enough to do. she's also concerned she'll never see him again if he becomes pope. jenna: nothing like a concerned mom. [laughter] believe this is monsignor maurini who declared the end, everybody out, essentially, you heard him say in latin. and we expect in just moments the doors will close. rick: you can see the cardinals in the background there.
[inaudible conversations] rick: and there it is. jenna: and it begins. two and a half hours from now, that's the timeline that we've been given thus far, but it is anyone's best guess. shep smith is back with us, you're going to be on the air with your show in a few hours, that's when we think potentially we could see the first vote to take place. walk us through a little bit about the process that we're not going to see and what you expect to be able to see from where you are right now. are you actually able to see in the distance the chimney where the white or black smoke will come up? are you reliant on a different shot? just tell us a little bit about how you would even go about reporting if there's a new pope. >> well, we have a camera on that. scott wilder, could you pull out
and lift the curtain a little bit? we're on the roof deck of an office building-like place a couple of blocks over there, and you can see the spire back behind us. there are 12 of us up here and a couple of camera shots, and we have monitors and an enormous technical layout to let us know exactly what's happened. it's been interesting to note that there are thousands of journalists with millions and millions of dollars worth of equipment to cover this, and people have been flown from in all over the world, and we all get a chimney stack and smoke coming out of it. [laughter] it's somewhat -- it's fascinating and beautiful and steeped in tradition and a bit ridiculous as well. you just get the smoke coming out of the thing. i remember in 2005 the smoke came out. it was a gray day, and the smoke was gray, and we spent the better part of five minutes -- we, the collective we from the
bbc to al-jazeera and us and everybody else -- trying to figure out what color the smoke was. when today they could just tweet no pope, and we would know that. but that's too easy. the process is really dictated, i believe, by things that have been gone over the past week and probably much longer than that. i don't, you know, to equate this with politics is maybe way simplistic, but it seems to work for the occasion. there are the republicans on one side and the democrats on the other side. in this case you have the curia on one side and the reformers on the other side, and this first vote is going to be about that. it's believed by those who watch this very closely and when i say very closely i mean very closely, that this, the cardinal from brazil is going to have on the reform side maybe around 40 votes. well, that's not enough to get anything done. so if they take that vote today -- they don't have to, but we've been led to believe it will -- they'll take that vote.
the overwhelming thinking is that they won't have 77 votes for anyone, so they'll move on. well, normally what happens is, it's my understanding, there's a bit of a jockeying process by which one of the other reformers, for instance, would say, okay, i'll take some of your votes, and maybe we can pick up some others from this other group with the effort of getting towards 77. and once you get through the reformers, the curia may be able to bring in some more votes for one of the curia's candidates, and at some point you get to 77. how long might that take? well, it just depends on how things go if there, and since we're probably never going to know, we'll just know there's white smoke or black smoke. if there's smoke today, it's sometime between now and three or so eastern time, and most likely that's black smoke, and they'll start again in the morning. what happens between that time and in the morning, again, is behind closed doors. it's not going to go on forever as it did, whatever, a couple
hundred years ago, but it could take a little time. there is division, and i don't mean to suggest that there's division in any way except to say that this is the way we believe this massive organization should go forward. and there are two camps. they're not specifically defined as two camps, but in general terms there are two camps. we've got to clean this up, clean it up fast, and the other side seems to be saying we can work this out, we can work this out. let's keep it tight. the reformers would suggest keeping it fight hasn't worked. in the united states some of these scandals have been cleaned up more than in other parts of the world, and there are suggestions here that there may be more of this in other places. when you see some in europe and some in the united states and some in other parts of the world but not yet in others, well, the thinking is it may be coming in those other parts. so there are challenges ahead. and there are challenges with the message as well. how to bring new people into the sold fold. if you look at a percentage of people or who are catholic, less than 1% in africa, and that's a place that they want, that they are hoping to find more.
and the overall goal here, obviously, is to spread the gospel, to tell people about the word of god and what it is catholics believe you have to do to please god and to eventually make it into the kingdom of heaven. so this is, this is very big on many fronts. it has to do with, as moynihan was saying earlier, the bread of the day, and more importantly and overriding the spirituality of it all, and they have a daunting task. jenna: a lot of dynamics as you say, shep. of this world and maybe another too. we'll watch for the smoke, and we'll watch for shep a little later today, 3 p.m. eastern time with his show live from rome n. the mean time, there's the chimney, six feet tall. that's where the black smock comes from, no pope, or the white smoke. and we'll have a new pope. we'll be watching for you on fox news. we'll be right back with more after a quick break.
switching gears a bit now. today house republicans rolling out a new plan to cut spending. budget committee chairman paul ryan unveiling a blueprint to balance the budget in ten years. >> this budget cuts spending by $4.6 trillion over the next ten years. historically, we've paid a little less than one-fifth of our income to the government. we match revenues with expenditures. so our budget matches the spending with our income just like every family and is business must do throughout america. rick: tomorrow democrats in the senate will offer their proposal calling for more spending and for higher taxes. two budgets, two very different visions, neither likely to pass. ab stoddard is associate editor and columnist for "the hill." if neither one is going to pass, what's the point of putting these on the table like this? >> well, the point is that it's how the system works, and in the case of the senate democrat, they haven't done this in four years, and it's their constitutional duty to do it. congress has the power of the
purse, and it's about time that they came up with a budget. presented their principles and opened themselves up to praise or criticism. that's part of process. and as you know, paul ryan has done this for several years running, and the democrats have had a great time fundraising over it and saying the world was going to end if the ryan budget would ever pass into law. but it is, it's, at the end of the day, a political exercise because pote of them are -- both of them are premised on things the other party can't tolerate. the ryan budget is premised on a repeal of obamacare that isn't going to happen. democrats are including a trillion dollars in new taxes that republicans would never support. so when you look at these two things and parties, of course, all week are going to criticize each other, you know, you hope where's that grand par gain, that's the only hope we have to move past this sort of budget through crisis process we've become so used to and whether or not they criticize each other all week and the president
introduces his own in a few weeks they can finally sit down together and reach something bigger that will actually bring the sides together. rick: those of us who sit down in our own homes with our own partners and spouses to work on a family budget, now, i'm notmeh my wife and propose that i get to spend x amount of money on something i really like when i know sheathed never go for it, so what's the point in putting something on the table like repealing obamacare? or raising taxes which republicans have said there's no way they're going to go for that? why make these proposals when they're not realistic? >> well, i think both parties feel that they need to assuage their bases before they get into a negotiation. if we ever have a grand bargain, as you know, which would be the best thing for the country and would get us out of this fiscal hole, it would bring mutual political pain on both parties, so they would end up being criticized from their own
supporters and the right and left wings of their parties. particularly in the case of john boehner, he had to and paul ryan had to come up with something that repealed obamacare, a main priority of conservatives. they were upset when a continuing resolution was passed to keep the government operating just for the next six months and it didn't include it. so when they talk about what they would do in 2014 and what their principles are, that has to be included. on the democratic side, as you know, they want to cut taxes along with -- excuse me, increase taxes along with cutting spending. they call that a balanced approach. and so nothing that they put forward would spare tax hikes. so, um, it is true it's kind of a waste of time, but as i said our best hope is the fact that there's more and more consensus growing about the need to do this now, to come together and reform entitlements. that's where you get the savings without raising so many new income taxes and without cutting so much discretionary spending. it's not in the sequester. that's not going to save us. it's really in an entitlement
reform package that both parties would take pains to agree to. and without that we move back from these constant near shutdowns and near defaults that we've grown so used to in the last couple years. rick: well, i'm hopeful to hear you say there's a bit of consensus even though some democrats have said over my dead body are we going to do anything to reform the entitlement program. i'm wondering, we have a
>> republicans aren't going to raise taxes anymore, they just did that two months ago. so what he learned is they're not budging. the only path to a legacy for president obama if he wants gun controls, immigration reforms, even education and energy reforms, the only path is through the fiscal hole. he has to come forward with entitlement reforms, put real savings on the table for republicans in order to close any loopholes or wherever he wants to get to. i think he realized that, and that's an acknowledgment in the all those dinners and lunch ors he's been hosting. rick: ab stoddard, the associate editor at "the hill." great to see you, thanks so much. >> thank you. of. jenna: we have breaking news in the case against colorado massacre suspect james holmes. we'll have that for you right after the break.
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jenna: a the suspect of a mass shooting in colorado entering a plea of not guilty. holmes is charged with killing 12 people. sorry, alicia, we're having some technical difficulties. our viewers just saw that. as i was saying to them, james holmes, 12 people allegedly killed 12 people, injured 70 others in the shooting that happened in july, and we're now seeing him for the first time in several weeks. tell us a little bit about what happened inside the courtroom today. >> reporter: sure thing, jenna. james holmes' parents were inside the courtroom when his defense team stood up and told the judge that they were not ready to enter a plea.
judge william sylvester said this event happened in july of last year, the shooting, and they were told of today's arraignment back in january, so they had plenty of time, and he said he didn't want to wait. so over the defense's objections, the judge entered what's called a standard plea of not guilty for holmes. now, he gave them the option at a future date to enter a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity which is what many court watchers expected to hear today. now, in the colorado a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity is different from what we have at the federal level. here the burden sits on the prosecution to prove that the defendant was, in fact, sane at the the time of the crime. but entering this plea comes with many risks for the defendant, james holmes, who would be subject to a state psychiatric exam, a polygraph test and the possibility of being forced to take a drug concoction that amounts to a truth serum all to help experts answer one question. >> was he suffering from a mental disease or defect that
rememberedderred him in-- rendered him incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong? now, if the defense had to prove that, that would be one thing. but here in colorado the prosecution has to disprove that. they have to prove sanity beyond a reasonable do you want, and with james holmes that could be tough. >> reporter: now, according to court documents, on november 15th of last year or james holmes was sent to denver health medical center by ambulance where he was of held for several days, quote, and frequently in restraints. authorities said he needed a psychiatric examination, so that's likely to come up. now, the district attorney has until april 1st to decide whether or not to pursue the death penalty, and today the judge set a trial date for august 5th and said it's expected to last four weeks. jenna? jenna: alicia acuna live from colorado. we're continuing to watch this case. thank you. rick: and we're continuing to watch every move out of the vatican where the cardinals are
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